Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by William on November 15, 2011 at 9:44pm

Hey Tom,

 

Good topic. I'll give you a fuller reply later, but just to get things going, please check out the following link:

 

http://www.americasmusiccharts.com/index.cgi?fmt=A2

 

This measures the number of "radio spins" for each song.

I've been monitoring this for the last couple of months for GGOY. Sara entered the chart the chart at around #40. She's now at #30 up from #32 last week. So she is definitely making progress here.

 

Now this is for something called Hot AC (Hot Adult Contemporary) so it applies to her standing in only the radio stations that play Hot AC. It's quite different than the Billboard Hot 100 which measures other things (downloads ?)

 

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 16, 2011 at 12:50am

Hey Will,

 

Yeah I saw it... I know about this charting position of GGOY (it's only chart it's on).  And with what I'm about to say... please don't anyone take the wrong way.  But, this chart inparticular is predicted, if not, expected to be her success area.  As the indie artist I am, that is trying to learn EVERY aspect of the business... a cold hard truth is, the real success lies in one main chart, Billboard Hot 100.  It's like the summit of where a true success measure is regarding exposure/popularity/airplay supremacy.  Things like Hot AC and such are "side" charts.  They cater to specific sounds, which help songs get side popularity.  The Billboard Hot 100 is the unconditional one, where basically there is no categorizing.

So please everyone, when I say certain things... I'm not trying to down play or undermind Sara's accomplishments.  I, like all of you basically admire her & kinda worship the ground she walks on, lol. It's just that, knowing music biz a bit & how it sorta works... the way her success/popularity goes, I feel like she's riding a thin line.  Especially when she could be so much bigger if just given a little more airplay & such.    

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Permalink Reply by William on November 16, 2011 at 2:59am

Don't worry.  I've been thinking about this too.

This is def. an interesting topic and I'd like to learn more.

My knowledge of the music industry is limited so I can't really comment. But I did hear somewhere that live concerts have become important too, i.e. that's where a lot of revenue is generated.

All of Sara's shows are pretty much or close to being sold out so she's pretty successful there. I guess that doesn't replace being #1 on Billboard Hot 100, but it has to count for something. Isn't it true that there are alot of musicians out there earning a good living but not necessarily as big as Gaga, Bieber, etc? 

Can she make it doing music for a niche audience?

 

You said she's riding a thin line. Are you worried that she will disappear from the music scene or are you just frustrated that she's not seeing more success?

 

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CreatorPermalink Reply by Clement on November 16, 2011 at 4:41am

This is a very interesting topic and I have to say I am a bit worried too.
I was pretty sure Gonna Get Over You was going to be on the HOT 100 or would have more radio spins. The song is really catchy, the lyrics are amazing and the music video is great.
I don't understand why this song hasn't got more success. I think it has more potential than Uncharted.

I agree with you William, Sara's shows are often sold out. She is successful there, but I guess I am a little frustrated that she does not get the recognition she deserves, you know. 

Here in France, we never heard another song than Love Song. It was in 2008! That's so sad.

 

I hope the song will keep on climbing the charts.
Maybe her Christmas Song and/or her EP will be more successful, we'll see. 

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 17, 2011 at 4:40pm

What Christmas song?  You mean (old) Winter Song?

And what EP?  The Ben Folds one?  I haven't heard anything about that in a while.

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CreatorPermalink Reply by Clement on November 17, 2011 at 5:48pm

No, I'm not talking about Winter Song. She has recorded a brand-new Christmas Song : "Love is Christmas". She said she is very proud of it. It's about everything that really matters at Christmas. http://www.sarabmusic.com/us/news/love-christmas
And yes, I was talking about the EP produced by Ben Folds :). 

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Permalink Reply by William on November 16, 2011 at 8:51am

I guess what I am asking is this:

 

So, Sara will never be a Lady Gaga or Beyonce. She will be a Norah Jones or a Sarah McLaughlin. Is that so bad?

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Permalink Reply by William on November 16, 2011 at 9:18am

Tom,

Here is another question. You know a lot more about the music industry than me, so maybe you can answer this.

 

Is the Billboard Hot 100 really that important anymore? I know it used to be when the music labels ruled the music world, but with Youtube iTunes, etc, maybe that's not true anymore.

 

The industry is totally fragmented now. Musicians that 20-30 years ago would never have survived are surviving now because they can bypass the major labels.

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 16, 2011 at 1:39pm

Well fellas,

As a foreword, right after Frank Sinatra, Sara Bareilles to me is the second greatest singer ever.  Now that's a compliment & I mean every word of it.  Again, me being an indie artist who is just starting out... I am constantly researching EVERY aspect of how to make it & keep it going.  So let me breakdown the pyramid of music, & I'm sure you'll all agree.  Here are some exaples... 

1)  Lady Gaga/Katy Perry:  The brand new top selling artists of this generation.  Shelf life, 10 yrs mainstream.

2)  Sara Bareilles/Colbie Callait:  The first single will recieve a lot of support.  But the follow up singles will be ignored & tank.  Shelf life, depending on artist/label connection, will be success but not popular.

3)  Kate Voegele/Matt Hires/Ingrid Michaelson:  Although signed to a major label, the avg person has no idea who they are.  Not one song of their has ever touched radio.  Yes, they'll be doing music probably for a long time.  But honestly their names will prob. never be remembered in music history.  Shelf life, a lifetime-but obscure.

 

And next are the shades of grey...

Jonas Brothers, Hanna Montana/Miley Cyrus:  They're the flavor of the month type.  Shelf life 3-5yrs tops.

Matchbox Twenty/Lifehouse/Nickelback: First albums had numerous spin off singles.  Now 15+ yrs of success & popularity in the biz, the amount of support given to follow up singles will be a struggle.  Shelf life 40 yrs.

Santana/Tom Petty:  Long time recording artists who have sportaic hits throughout their career.  They're never popular, but constantly successful.  Shelf life Lifetime.

 

Now with all of these, they're not opinional, these are facts about these artists.  Now with Sara, I know she has a lot more going on than they give credit for.  And also, radio stations hold the supreme power.  Put it this way... if Sara Bareilles wasn't signed to Epic & Love Song didn't get airplay, I can guarantee 90% of the ppl in this fan site would have no idea who Sara is. 

 

Radio wants to be part of the in crowd.  The in crowed follows the popular kids.  The popular kids follow Gaga, Pitbull, Perry, Cruz, Bruno Mars, etc.  So radio follows those artists.  Listen to your radio stations.  In my area I get 12 decent stations.

Two only play the same 12 songs, lol.  Seriously, they loop the "right now" artists over & over.  The rest all play the top40 or best of 80/90's/today, or just lite fm.  These are the one's who play the modern standards of 3am, Wonderwall, One Headlight, When It's Over, Hanging By A Moment, etc.  These ones also take on the new singles by artists like Sara, Colbie, etc.  And only after all of these 10 stations keep playing the new songs by these artists, THEN the popular stations will include it.  Ex:  When K.O.A. came out.  The other 10 stations took it on, it wasn't until almost 9months later that the 2 popular stations took it on.

 

With Sara, I believe, if probably marketed, she could have Katy Perry's success with 6 successful spin off singles.  'Cause lets be real.  Everyone here could hate Lady Gaga, & still be able to name 10 songs quick.  Ask the avg Joe who Sara Bareilles is, they'll ask for a song title.  And Love Song & KOA are the only ones they'll know. 

 

Today's technology does help A LOT.  But it's limited.  People do not have the ability to look for something they never heard.  Put it this way, none of you would think to yourselves... I must hear some Tom Mauro music, lol.  No one knows I exists yet, lol.  Radio is still the main driving force when it comes to promo'ing new music to a large audience. 

 

** Sorry I wrote so much, haha.  And I kept this short.  It's just when you care for an artist, you want the best.  And we've seen a lot of great talent come & go.  And we want Sara to stay.  We don't want to see her end up like Liz Fair or Natalie Merchant. 

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 16, 2011 at 2:15pm

 

It's kinda simple... 

If every time Sara released an album, it had 3-4 successful, popular, world known singles.  I wouldn't worry 'bout her.  But if she averages only one, it's walking the fine line.  Also, lets be real, even thought K.H. debuted at #1 on the Billboard charts... It was wise marketing.  It only sold 90K copies opening week.  And no other artists had any releases that week.  Also, by week two, it feel out of the top 10.  So, by the album not having any competiton, it gave it an easy win.  Ex:  In 2000, when Matchbox Twenty released the album Mad Season, it sould over 325K copies, first week.  And that album only peaked at #3 on the charts.  So it's a lot more than just reaching #1, it's about how it got there.

Now please, I stress, lol... please, no one think I'm trying to rain on Sara's parade.  Nor tell her how to work her career.  She's done very well without me so far, lol.  It's just, I'm looking at every detail to see how it's going.  K.H.'s success is like a boxer getting the decision in a fight, but not scoring a knock out.  It's a win yes, but it's not the same. 

Again, I do want to be signed artist one day, so I look at everything my idols do to learn from their mistakes & such & see what I can do differently.  Granted, I'm not worthy of their shadow, but maybe I can learn from history with them. 

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Permalink Reply by William on November 16, 2011 at 5:35pm

Yeah, that Billboard #1 debut was a fluke. And yes, she dropped to like #22 the week after and then I think off the charts in the 3'rd week.

 

Well, is it even simpler? Maybe the type of music Sara writes is not really the kind of music kids are going to listen to right now. And if that's the case, then at least for now she will always have maybe only 1 single from an album that makes it onto the charts and that's it.

 

So does she have to change the kind of or style of music she writes? I hope not.

 

So what do you think she should do?

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Tom on November 17, 2011 at 12:57am

Will, I'm glad you see what I mean about the charting being more smart biz planning than actual success.  Don't get me wrong, a #1 is a #1.  But you see what I'm saying. 

 

Now, the music Sara writes... She's already evolved & grown.  Listening to her demo album & 2eps...  She has a very mid tempo contemporary style.  Then look at Little Voice.  It's very pop oriented.  Still true & genuine though.  Basically the songs were given new "dresses."  Lets be real, Sara would probably never write a song like "Say You're Sorry."  It's very pop-pop.

 

Does she need to change?... not at all.  I'm far from being an "expert", but Sara Bareilles is THE greatest out there right now.  She has utter control between being engaging & real.  Her style is perfect, her promotions/marketing team needs re-tooling.  I'm not just saying this as a fan.  I like a lot of artists... I worship & believe in Sara.  She is the modern Sinatra.  Heart-fire-attitude.  I wish to God in a way I could help her fight to get bigger.  No bs, she's perfect as is.  Success lies on singles.  Artists are remembered by songs, even ones we don't listen to we know b/c of massive airplay.   Now, if whoever is in charge keeps bs'n with it, they're going to see her end up like Michelle Branch (& she's a fav of mine too.)  They really need to push her singles onto mainstream radio. 

The music business is always changing.  That's how it grows/survives.  Think, 10yrs ago an album would be released on cassette tape as well as cd.  Now it's cd or mp3.  Think of how bands went from garage paper mailing systems to facebook postings.  It's constantly evolving.

 

A small secret that's plain as day.  If you play something enough, it gives to impression of being popular.  If it's popular, people want to be a part of it.  If EPIC can get radio stations to play Sara's songs like there's no tomorrow... I bet you all my vocals chords...  She'd be a big a deal as Gaga.  No lie.  Think about it.

Matchbox Twenty:  Yourself or Someone Like You  5 HIT SINGLES

Daughtry:  Daughtry:  4 HIT SINGLES

Alanis Morisette:  Jagged Little Pill:  5 HIT SINGLES

Hootie & The Blowfish:  Cracked Rear View Mirror:  4 HIT SINGLES

Katy Perry:  Teenage Dream:  6 HIT SINGLES 

Michelle Branch:  The Spirit Room:  3 HIT SINGLES   See where I'm getting at.

All that has to be done is for radio stations to play Sara Bareilles songs constantly.  When that happens, they will break the top 10 I guarantee. 

MUSIC BECOMES POPULAR BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE MAKE IT POPULAR.  How can we listen to something new if it's not properly promoted?  Ex:  This is why McDonald's is a billion $ biz & the local burger shop barely survives.  PEOPLE KNOW MCD'S EXISTS OUTSIDE OF A 5 MILE RADIUS.  lol.

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